Talk:Judaism

Focus on Neturei Karta: why?

User Got Milked added a substantial section on “criticism of Judaism” that seems interested primarily in criticism of political Zionism as an aspect of some Jews’ religious identity through an examination of the Neturei Karta sect’s repudiation of Zionism. Given the marginal status of the Neturei Karta in the broader Jewish community both in terms of impact on practice and opinion, and in terms of their small numbers, and given the total lack of any other locus of critique (outside of political Zionism) in the “criticism of Judaism” section, the addition of this section seems likely to be motivated by an anti-Zionist ideology. This is not in keeping with Wikipedia best practices, which enjoin editors to remain neutral. This section should be moved to Haredim and Zionism. Khane Rokhl Barazani (talk) 17:40, 13 April 2024

This is a clear WP:COATRACK for items better suited for anti-zionism or Haredim and Zionism and not in line with the criteria of the main article, which is "criticism of Judaism and its texts, laws, and practices"

Editor should adjust accordingly or the items will be excised shortly. Mistamystery (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

@Got Milked it is clear WP:COATRACK, and just saying "it not" does not make it so.

As outlined in the revert note, your addition is not about criticism of Judaism (i.e. as a religion and practice), but is about religious criticism of Zionism. While perhaps a stub at best may be appropriate for this section on this page, there are separate pages that directly cover your additions (which do not fall under "criticism of judaism" generally speaking) and I recommend you direct your edits there.

And no, you are not being censured (censored?) you are using the wrong section to shoehorn arguments that clearly belong on another page. Mistamystery (talk) 04:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

This is not a "focus on Neturei Karta" nor does it "COATRACK"; quite the contrary. This is a very general criticism of the very fundamental of Judaism as a venerable tradition of pious faith/violation of that pious faith. I have initially edited-in very brief introductory of this phenomena in the conspicuously blank CRITICISM section for some reasonable context of the nominal subject matter leading into the Main article:Criticism of Judaism, although User: Trappist the monk re-edited it to haphazardly add more to the section in an erroneous format/structure (sabotage?) which I have corrected with appropriate format and with additional facts. I will revert to the pre-Trappist the monk edit to help allay feelings of "WP:COATRACK" with this BASIC CRITICISM OF/WITHIN JUDAISM so as to NOT GET AWAY FROM THE NOMINAL SUBJECT of this article/this (blank) section that should have some context. I will add the extraneous details to Haredim and Zionism although that and all the myriad of other articles to dilute the subject matter is indeed WP:COATRACK(ING) which I believe is the true intention here. Got Milked (talk) 05:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

1948

The Cre-ator and Sustainer of the Universe has a sense of humor: In the Hebrew calendar, known as Anno Mundi, 1948 is the year in which Abraham was born. On the secular calendar (current year being 2024 CE, vs 5784 AM), 1948 is the birth year of the Middle East country at the center of the News Media. Neither of these 1948s gets a Bronze Medal, nor are they as unspecific as the term Bronze Age, which does not have a basis for remaining in the Judaism article. Nuts240 (talk) 06:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Clever, but what's your point? Btw, the term Bronze Age actually doesn't occur in the article. Abraham, Canaan(ites), etc. do, so I'm a bit confused, but whatever; is it separation between biblical legend and historical approach, or the opposite, keeping the scriptural approach to time, undivided by human intellectual constructs like periodisation? Arminden (talk) 10:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

First representative

"Abraham is hailed as the first Hebrew and the father of the Jewish people."

And of many others, see Arabs. So why not Jacob/Israel? Or Moses, the first to receive the Law. This (Abraham = the first, or progenitor) isn't the only interpretation. Arminden (talk) 10:19, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Bronze/Iron age parking place

Edit (move wikitext from Judaism to 'Ya...' was rvtd, so parking wikitext here for now: this is not a deletion; someone composed the wording! Nuts240 (talk) 00:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Yahwish, from which Judaism derived, began to be a widely-practiced religion first in the northern Kingdom of Israel during the time of the Omrides (c. 884-835 BCE); Judaism evolved out of it likely around the 6th/5th century BCE with its characteristic practices and prohibitions widely practiced first in the second century BCE.